LIZ NARRATION: Head’s up — this episode contains discussions of guns and features audio of firearms being shot in a safe and controlled environment.
[LIGHT MUSIC BEGINS]
LIZ NARRATION: There are many things I’m not a fan of. Talking about the weather. Sexism. Mayonnaise. And, I am NOT a fan of guns.
In 2020, Latinos purchased firearms at a 49 percent higher rate than they did in 2019. Every year, more Latinos are victims of gun violence, especially in states like Texas, and Florida where I live, which already have lax gun laws. From 2014 to 2020, the number of Latinos who died due to gun violence rose by 66%. That’s an increase of nearly twice the rate of gun deaths nationally.
So we’re dying by gun violence and buying more guns all at the same time? The math isn’t mathing.
The second amendment, the right to bare arms—I know I know. But all of that sits in the shadow of the country with the most mass shootings in the world. My politics are showing, Pulso fam. Since I have such strong opinions about this, ESPECIALLY because I have such strong opinions about this, in this episode, we meet a Latino gun owner and I do something I’ve never done and never thought I’d do — hold a gun myself.
I’m Liz Rebecca Alarcón and Today, we’re talking Latinos and guns…In Confianza.
[LIGHT MUSIC ENDS]
LIZ NARRATION: When I go to public spaces, I make sure I spot the exit immediately in case there’s an active shooter. When I’m in a traffic jam I pray que un loco no vaya a salir with road range and pull some semi automatic out on the highway. You get it. I hate guns. I’m scared of them.
Maribel, who you all will remember as former co-host of this show, is here in the studio because she KNOWS how big a deal this was for me…
[PERCUSSIVE MUSIC BEGINS]
LIZ IN STUDIO: Okay, Maribel. I did it. I did it. I went to the gun range.
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: You went to a gun range? I’m going to need more details. What in the world motivated you to do this?
LIZ IN STUDIO: Well, you know, we’ve been talking about it. I hate guns. I find them scary. And I’m really worried about all the gun violence issues we’re facing in the U.S. And it’s because of the guns. There are more guns than people in this country. So, I really feel a lot of, um, animosity towards this weapon. But how could I do this episode exploring the relationship between Latinos and guns when I have such a strong rejection to them and not go and experience that which I reject myself in person to know what it feels like. So I did it, Maribel, I mustered the courage, got out of my comfort zone, and I brought my friend Diego with me to the gun range to see what it was all about.
[PERCUSSIVE MUSIC FADES OUT]
Liz (at gun range): I see Warrior Indoor Shooting Range to my left. And, um, I’m not quite sure I’m going to go through with this, but we’re going to try. I’m feeling very nervous…
(Tape fades under Liz in Studio)
LIZ IN STUDIO: And so we walk in, y nos encontramos con eso…
Amanda (at gun range): So welcome to Warrior Gun Range. I’ll be helping you today.
(Tape fades under Liz in Studio)
LIZ IN STUDIO: And then I meet Amanda. Not the person I’m expecting to see in front of rows and rows of automatic weapons.
Amanda (at gun range): Have you ever shot before?
Liz (at gun range): I’ve never shot before. I’ve never been in a gun shop before and I’m very nervous.
Amanda (at gun range): Okay, well don’t even worry about it because our range series range safety officers, they’ll be able to help you today in getting you introduced to how to use a firearm.
(Tape fades under Liz in Studio)
LIZ IN STUDIO: First sight, first impression, she was super nice, like a girl I’d randomly start a conversation with at the bar and stay with for hours just talking about our lives. Definitely giving me potential new friend vibes
Liz (at gun range): Do you see a lot of Latinas and Latinos coming? I know we’re in Miami, we’re in Latino City, but does our community come a lot?
Amanda (at gun range): Yes, absolutely. Um, you do see a lot of people who have fled countries that they’re not allowed to have firearms. This is a space where a lot of people are exercising their second amendment right to bear arms. so there’s many different things that, you know, a lot of people who are Latino actually come here for, aside from the fact that it’s a really fun sport. It’s almost therapeutic because, well, it really is because you’re spending time present. That’s something that a lot of people talk about when it comes to yoga or meditation. Same deal. Because you’re really focused in on…
(Tape fades under Maribel in Studio)
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: Did she just compare the gun range to going to a yoga or meditation class? You know what, Amanda? You sold me. I’ll be there. Let me get my plane ticket. I’m getting on the next flight out to Miami. I’m coming. I need that stress release.
LIZ IN STUDIO: I felt the same thing. She almost had me there, where I was like, oh, I never thought about it that way, but I don’t know, not quite.
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: But I also love the fact that she was so kind and welcoming and she didn’t want you to get scared off. And it does make me want to try it. I’m not gonna lie. Like I’m being real. It made me want to try it just hearing her describe it.
LIZ IN STUDIO: I’m so happy that’s coming across because that is exactly how I felt.
Andy (at gun range): We’re gonna go over the house rules, okay? Whenever you have the gun on your hands on the table, wherever it is, uh, it’s going to always be pointing at the target. Okay. So either the target or the back wall. Let go. Loosen up. Don’t be tight. Okay. All the way up. Grab. This finger stays out. This one. Yep. Wrap around just like that. Lift this one up for a second. You’re going to extend your hands. Okay. Angle it down just a little bit.
(Tape fades under Maribel in Studio)
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: I’m nervous listening to that. Like, I’m nervous as Andy is describing how to use the gun and he’s telling you, like, point by point. And, quite frankly, it sounds way more complicated than you see in the movies. Like, there’s no way I could just pick up a gun and shoot it right, like, right now. Cause I’ve never done it.
LIZ IN STUDIO: That’s how I felt. The class, instead of making me feel more confident, like Mariela, I was so concentrated. I was so focused. I was trying to catch everything but I did feel, like, overwhelmed with all of the details.
Liz (at gun range): Eye protection is on, ear protection is on.
Andy (at gun range): So it’s gonna be right through this door.
Liz (at gun range): We’re in a section all by ourselves. Thank god. It makes me feel safer that I’m in a section all by myself. And there’s no one around. I definitely feel safer. Oh my god, it’s pink. That’s one of my favorite colors. Oh my god, now the target is flying back. It’s like a zipline.
Andy (at gun range): These are your bullets, ok? They’re super tiny. They’re not gonna make a lot of noise. They’re not gonna kick back.
(Tape fades under Maribel in Studio)
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: So they put you in a section by yourself and clearly you feel a little bit more comfortable. What was making you so uncomfortable before? Was it like you were afraid that you were gonna shoot somebody?
LIZ IN STUDIO: SO to me, I’m like, how on Earth, is it safe? You heard Andy, right? All you hear when you’re there is keep the gun facing away from you. But how do I know those people are keeping the gun facing away from them? How do I know that they’re not holding it right? How do I know that they know how to use bullets? Like, that’s my, my brain racing while I’m there. And I’m like,I just had so many questions and it was just like, bueno dale, like if you were at the batting cage or like if you were voting, right? So that’s why to me, knowing that If there was only one tiny, small, minuscule bullet in only my gun that could potentially harm anyone or anything, or me, made me feel safer.
Liz (at gun range): How many first timers come that don’t shoot?
Employee (at gun range): They all shoot. I haven’t had a first timer that hasn’t shot a gun.
Andy (at gun range): Yeah, no, no. Really. Even the kids, even the kids, they shoot.
Liz (at gun range): The kids?
Andy (at gun range): Yeah.
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: Hold on! You can bring a kid into a gun range?
LIZ IN STUDIO: And they were all shooting.
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: How old do you have to be to hold a gun?
LIZ IN STUDIO: I don’t know, but to me, I saw what looked like five and seven and ten year olds shooting while I was there.
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: No.
LIZ IN STUDIO: Yeah.
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: With real bullets?
LIZ IN STUDIO: With real bullets.
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: I don’t understand. How is that legal? Like, if a kid can’t smoke a cigarette, what, how are they allowed to hold a gun?
Andy (at gun range): Hey, you guys are gonna dump it?
Guy (at gun range): Yeah, we’re just gonna dump it.
Andy (at gun range): I’ll be outside.
(Tape fades under Liz in Studio)
LIZ IN STUDIO: So when I’m about to shoot, three streamers with an enormous automatic machine gun walk into my section. And that’s when Andy’s like wait, hold on, let’s go, let’s get out.
Andy (at gun range): This damn thing is very, very, very loud. I don’t want you to get freaked out.
Liz (at gun range): Oh my god, I’m freaking out already.
Andy (at gun range): They’re gonna shoot it. It’s a full auto so they’re gonna dump the whole thing and that’ll be it.
Liz (at gun range): Oh my god…
(Tape fades under Liz in Studio)
LIZ IN STUDIO: That was literally seconds before I was about to have my yoga-like, zen experience, like Amanda was painting for me. And then Andy is like, “this might be too much”. No kidding! So that’s when we step out, and that’s when he’s like, “okay, they’re gonna, they’re gonna load it all”. Like, in Andy’s mind I imagine he’s like, “let’s have her wait until the streamers are done and then it’s your turn”.
[GUN SHOT IN RUN RANGE]
[LIZ SCREAMS]
[ANDY LAUGHS]
Amanda (at gun range): It’s fine. I didn’t even notice.
Andy (at gun range): No, we didn’t notice anymore.
[GUN SHOTS IN SUCCESSION]
Amanda (at gun range): We hear this every day, so it’s like, whatever, walk in the park for us.
Andy (at gun range): The sound of America, baby.
Liz (at gun range): Yeahhhhh…
[EVERYONE LAUGHS]
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: I am speechless. He said, ”the sound of America, baby”.
LIZ IN STUDIO: Baby, baby. Yeah!
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: This feels like this is a bit of a bait and switch because they sold you this like picture of this is going to be amazing. It’s going to relax you. It’s going to get rid of your stress. Kind of like a yoga class. That ain’t what happened on the other side of that wall.
LIZ IN STUDIO: Yeah, it all changed in a split second for the worse. I didn’t shoot. I couldn’t do it.
Liz (at gun range): I can’t do it. I can’t do it.
Amanda (at gun range): You got this.
Liz (at gun range): It’s not even because of you all. You all have been like, so, like, I want to go have drinks with you right now.
[MULTIPLE ROUNDS FROM AUTOMATIC WEAPON FIRES IN RUN RANGE]
[LIZ SCREAMS]
[ANDY LAUGHS]
Liz (at gun range): Sorry. I’m sorry. No, I’m gonna go. This has been so…
[PERCUSSIVE MUSIC BEGINS]
MARIBEL IN STUDIO: So you didn’t shoot! What was it?
LIZ IN STUDIO: The automatic weapon! Seeing fire come out of a machine gun used only to exterminate human beings en masse in my face. I’m in tears right now remembering it and processing it. And it’s, I shouldn’t be feeling this way because everyone around me is normalizing this — what to me has a horrible representation. And I’m sitting here and I’m thinking of Uvalde. And I’m thinking about Parkland. And I’m thinking about, um, Pulse. And I’m thinking about so many other mass shootings in our country. And I just had to get out.
LIZ NARRATION: There you have it—I didn’t do it. You can see that I left and ended right where I started, still on the opposite end of the pro-gun spectrum.
But just like the many, many, many identities of Latinos in the US, there are many identities of the (Latino) gun owner. Some use guns for sport, some buy guns and as you heard, go the range as a hobby, some, keep weapons at home for protection. We talked to someone who grew up with gun culture, giving him a layered view on the purpose, and need for guns.
[PERCUSSIVE MUSIC ENDS]
This, when we come back.
[PROMO BREAK]
[CHIME-Y MUSIC BEGINS]
LIZ NARRATION: Luis was born in Colombia and moved to the US when he was 11. I’ve known him since we were in high school. But this is a part of his story that I’m just learning about now.
Luis: So there were some bad guys going after my family and my dad was in danger so we had to move all of a sudden.
LIZ NARRATION: Luis’s family had a transportation business in Medellin and it was successful. This was the late 90s, a time in Colombia where even if you were doing things the right and legal way, chances were, you still would not be able to escape the armed conflict that was rampant at that time. The violence would somehow seep into your industry, too. That’s what happened to Luis’s family. The competition was getting jealous. His uncle, who was leading the business, had already gotten shot, and his dad got word that he would be next and Luis and his family fled the country the very next day.
[CHIME-Y MUSIC FADES OUT]
Luis: When I was seven, I started going with my dad to, uh, to a shooting range. He had a big hobby, and he loved guns and going there and going with his friends and so on. And then, so I started accompanying him.
LIZ NARRATION: For those that don’t know much about Colombia, Medellin, where Luis and his family are from, is a city among a vast, rural part of the country, where, it’s typical for families to have ranches, farms, and to spend much of their leisure time on their land. That’s how Luis grew up, and that environment also included a pretty thriving gun culture.
Liz Interview: How did it feel? Do you remember what it was like that first time you went with your dad?
Luis: I mean, it felt exciting because you would see, you would watch a movie and then, I mean, all the little kids play with guns and then they imitate and then they love, like, I don’t know, playing warfare and so on, right? So, actually going there and hearing the shot and, and looking at everyone, like, being excited. So, it felt some, like a, like a safe place especially, like, spending time with my dad, which, which was great, right?
Liz Interview: It was like a bonding experience, too.
Luis: It was a father and son time, so it was, it was amazing. It was fond memories.
Liz Interview: And from then, do you remember the conversations that you would have with your dad? Because I imagine for you, like you were saying, it was a game kind of like the movies. It was an adventure, it was bonding, but did you ever feel a moment of seriousness?
Luis: Before going to the ranch, like, he explained why he had a gun. It’s a dangerous thing to have, it’s not, it’s not a toy, um, so you have to, you have to know how to use it, how to clean it and maintain it. You have to, to understand that, that you could do a lot of damage with it. So again, he sat me down and, and we talked, we talked about things that were going on in Colombia. You see, you could hear the seriousness and I understood it back then how, how it could be something that you have fun with, but you have to be very serious and careful with it.
LIZ NARRATION: So, Pulso fam, remember the time period. There were growing political tensions in the country. The FARC, an armed rebel group, was taking over pretty much everything. Luis’ uncles had been kidnapped, shot, and so, for families like Luis’s, weekends en la finca shooting guns for fun also had an undertone of seriousness. Just in case he needed these skills, Luis knew how to defend himself and his family. He never had to use a gun for protection in Colombia. But his family left at the height of the violence — who knows what would have happened if his family would have stayed…
Luis: We came all of a sudden, right? So like, that gun or that hobby died down a bit. Immigrants in the U. S., new culture, new language, new people, new everything, right? I think it was pretty difficult to keep it up, or at least what we had there. It was probably, what, about six, seven years ago that, that my dad got a gun here and, we started going to the range just, just for fun and, and practice and so on.
Liz Interview: How different was it to be able to own a gun here versus in Colombia?
Luis: So I think here compared to Colombia, it’s pretty easy to to get a gun. I think Colombia is full of paperwork. You have to, you have to know people. The guns are like extremely expensive. It’s a lot right? Um, here it’s, it’s pretty easy, I guess. You go and I mean, you pick the one you want. There’s a holding period where you can’t get it right away. And then you get it, I don’t know, three, five days later.
Liz Interview: We’re speaking to you all from Pembroke Pines, Florida. And Florida is one of the states that probably has the easiest access to be able to own a gun. Is that right?
Luis: Correct. I think there’s some limits but yeah, it’s pretty easy to get, to get a gun. I mean, most of the people have a gun. Um, and especially now it’s, it’s easier to get a gun and easy to carry it. Which I, I have my, my doubts about being able to carry a gun so easily. Like anybody can carry without a permit. And, and in Colombia, it’s again, it’s, it’s very controlled by the government. Um, but we know there’s a lot of guns in the black market, so you could probably get, get a gun easy, like easily. It’s just here, it’s legal, right? And the access and, and they’re cheap and, and you can get, I don’t know, a $250 gun. You could get a, I don’t know, five, $6,000 gun, so who knows?
Liz Interview: It’s like a purse, right Luis? You have your options depending on the brand and how high end you want to go, right?
Luis: Right. You have them all colors, all sizes…
(TAPE FADES UNDER LIZ NARRATION)
LIZ NARRATION: I think it’s interesting to hear these details. Remember, we’re in a state that promotes gun culture. It’s an open conversation, it’s not taboo–gun ownership is encouraged, to the point where we assume everyone has one. And yet, this same state, Florida, where Luis and I live, like Maribel and I were talking about at the top of the episode, is among the top states where nuestra gente, Latinos, are dying every day because of guns. Almost half of all Latino youth in major US cities live less than a mile away from a gun homicide that occurred in the past year. So, what are we doing here? Normalizing the use of a weapon that’s killing us? Is this what the 2nd amendment was intended for? Currently, Latino voters list gun violence as their second most important issue and 65% of Latino adults support stronger gun laws that would help keep their communities safe.
Luis: When I bought my gun, I had already been married. So I thought about safety and keeping my family safe, right? I have two small children, right? So one of the first things I did was get a safe. Something that only I know the combination to open it. So at least I know an accident is not going to happen.
Liz Interview: It’s interesting to hear that you found a need to do that for your family. What was it about the environment or about the state of what we’re living in that led you to say, “we are less safe if we don’t have this means to protect ourselves”?
Luis: So I think it’s a mix of both, right? I’ve been around guns forever. I know how to use them properly. But then I think there’s a series of events that’s happening in the U.S., right? So all the school shootings, all the road rage incidents. All those things kind of led for me to make a decision, right?
Liz Interview: I wanted to get into that too, Luis. The whole reason why we’re doing this episode around Latinos and our relationship with guns in this country is that I think that there’s a misconception that if you, agree with certain reforms and certain safety nets and certain regulations, if you want to call it that, then you’re automatically assumed to want to take away our Second Amendment rights are automatically assumed to be against the right to bear arms, which we know is part of the Constitution. It becomes very black and white, but I think that there’s a gray area. I think that you can own a gun and also be concerned with certain measures that may be too far or maybe might make us less safe. I think you named one of them, which is the access to guns without permits. Is that something that, you mentioned, concerns you? What would you, in your perfect world, want to see when you were to go to the gun shop?
Luis: I’m all for owning guns, right? It’s just, I think there needs to be some sort of regulation that you can carry a concealed weapon without a permit, um, who knows who’s carrying it, right? Some people are going to say, Oh, but, but they’re going to carry it anyway. But at least if we all had some sort of mental health check, like a thorough background search, there’s some people that, that have multiple violent, um, offenses, right, that have guns or have access to guns, right? I also don’t think like people should be able to have access to military grade guns, right? Let’s say in a perfect world, if you want, you can’t, you don’t have access toan AK 47 or an AR 15, right? But you want to shoot it, or you want to practice, you could, you could probably have a place that, that’s licensed, certified, has, um, instructors there. But not for somebody to take it home and then just go and shoot up whatever, be it Walmart, where we go and shop or be a school where we send our kids to.
Liz Interview: I’m curious as someone who comes from Colombia and, you know, we often, uh, talk about the violence that so many of us and our families that come from Latin America, many of us came to the United States fleeing that violence or that levels levels of crime that we didn’t find here and yet even in Latin America we’re not seeing the epidemic of gun violence in these places like like we are here. Why do you think it happens here?
Luis: Just think we have very easy access to them.
[PERCUSSIVE MUSIC BEGINS]
Liz Narration: Latinos and guns — our access and use of them, it’s complicated.
Way back when our country was founded, the second amendment, ratified in 1791, was proposed by James Madison to allow the creation of civilian forces that could counter a tyrannical federal government. It reads, “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”. After going deep on this issue, talking to a gun owner, and holding a gun myself, instead of coming around and feeling more comfortable with guns, I feel even less convinced that our gun happy way of life is going to save us.
On the legal front, when I think about what the 2nd amendment says regarding regulation and a militia — well, gun laws are inconsistent across states, making the ability to regulate them really questionable. And, I don’t see most gun owners forming part of a well regulated militia. Plus, good ol’ James probably never imagined that the United States would have the most powerful military in the world. So, does this civilian militia he wanted to give us the option to form even stand a chance against the U.S. military, anyway?
On the safety front, there are too many examples of gun use gone wrong and too few examples of a well meaning dad using a gun to protect his family. And then, we have the gun violence epidemic. It’s too painful to ignore. Too many people have access to guns who use them for the wrong reasons. And too many people, too many of nuestra gente, are dying. In a christian school and the mall and the movies and the supermarket…too many people are dying because of this uniquely American disease. If this is the sound of America, like Andy so proudly proclaimed at the range, then, I want to be part of playing a different tune.
[PERCUSSIVE MUSIC FADES OUT]
[THEME MUSIC BEGINS]
Liz Narration: This episode was produced by me, Liz Rebecca Alarcón. Editing by Charlie Garcia, Mark Pagán, and Jackie Nowak. Audio engineering, scoring, and mixing by Charlie Garcia. Additional audio editing by Julian Blackmore. I’m your host, Liz Rebecca Alarcón
You can subscribe to In Confianza wherever you get your podcasts, and if you like what you heard please leave us a review on apple podcasts and tell a friend to give us a listen.
That’s it for this week. Thanks for joining me, Pulso Fam. We’ll be back next week, in Confianza.
