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Liz Narration: Hey Pulso fam, it’s Liz Rebecca.
Today’s a special day. I’m here to bring you some news. First off, we’re FINALLY back — season five starts, now! I had no idea when we started this show, from my dining room table in my one bedroom apartment in the middle of a pandemic…that we’d be here, four years later, still telling the Latino history no one taught us and untold stories of unheard Latino voices from across our country.
Stories that you won’t find ANYWHERE else.
Now the bigger news. We took some time in between seasons to think about what we want to continue to share with you here in this podcast. We talked to listeners, we workshopped with colleagues as part of a podcast accelerator, and we talked amongst ourselves over at Pulso HQ to try to get to the heart of what makes someone feel Latino. And you know what — it’s complicated. I mean, we all know this, but there’s often so much that we don’t talk about. What if WE could be that space for those complex, sometimes private, conversations?
And with that new mission in mind, we’re returning to your podcast feeds with a new name: In Confianza with Pulso.
Every week on In Confianza, you’ll join me in exploring the ways Latinos live out our heritage. That messiness of being de aqui y de alla that only we understand.
So, I’m back as your host! As for Maribel, you’ll occasionally still hear from her too, but she won’t be joining us this season in the co-host role. Being in two different cities, with two different time zones, and with a bunch of responsibilities in-between was making it really hard for her and me to sync and dedicate the time to really bring you our full thoughts here, together. We love you Maribel!!!
So with that, I hope you join us now, every WEEK, to talk about everything from our relationship with guns and our layered identities to today’s first episode of the season — two Latinas’ experiences with abortion.
We’re excited to be back and THRILLED to share more with you…in Confianza.
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Liz Narration: Have you ever had an abortion?
This is probably not the first thing you might ask at girls’ night.
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I know I’m starting to have these types of conversations more often with my friends but not often enough though, honestly. It’s definitely still off-limits with my family, and I can’t imagine bringing this up when I’m hanging with the in-laws any given Sunday afternoon. But, it’s especially important that we DO have them, because right now, our rights to reproductive health access are under attack. And those attacks are pushing our experiences even more to the shadows.
That’s why we’re talking about it on the show today.
On this episode, you’ll hear from two Latinas with two very different experiences. They both had abortions, and are sharing their stories in hopes that more of us in the Latino community become comfortable with the topic. Their goal, and ours, is also that other Latinas who have had abortions or are in the process of deciding if that’s a choice they want to make, feel less alone.
I’m Liz Rebecca Alarcón. This is In Confianza with Pulso.
[BOUNCY MUSIC ENDS]
Mel: The college experience was exactly how I saw it on TV. Frat boys, the college football craze, historic buildings. I did feel a little bit of a culture shock, but I instantly found community amongst me other first generation Latinos.
Liz Narration: This is Mel, talking about her experience at the University of Florida. Mel is one of my best friends, we met in high school and she, without a doubt, is the most eclectic, full of surprises (pa’ no decir random!) person I know. She’s been there for every important moment of my life since we met, but that doesn’t mean we’ve always gone into the deepest depths of the most intimate part of our lives.
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As we grew up, Mel grew into her unique self with the foundation of a home that looked like a lot like all of our friend’s homes: a tight knit Colombian family trying to navigate the U.S. system while holding on to their roots, which, was much easier to do in South Florida where we grew up, a place where Latinos were the majority and the working language, Spanglish.
Mel and I never really talked about reproductive health. But we DID talk about, well, the dudes we were into. Sometime in college she met someone who would become her boyfriend, Giancarlo.
LIZ: When you met him, did you know that there was, like, something special there?
MEL: I do have like a secret obsession with Peruvian food and he was the only Peruvian person I knew at the University of Florida. And so I immediately thought, okay, he’s going to take me to the restaurants I’m looking for or cook the food I’m looking for. And so I kept him close mostly because of my love for Peruvian food.
LIZ: You used him for your culinary pursuits. I love it.
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Mel: We were a couple that lived day by day. So we really just enjoyed the moment we had together. Growing up in our own ways and had our own different dreams we never really talked about a future together.
Liz Narration: They dated through college, and stayed together once they graduated, but settling down was never really part of the plan for them.
Mel: We didn’t put pressure on each other to be committed to talk about the future. We were still living day by day.
Liz: What about having kids?
Mel: I actually never imagined having kids. It was never a deep desire of mine. I love women and the nurturing spirit that they have. And I find that nurturing spirit in me, even if I didn’t want to have a kid. Um, I was always the fun tia, the older cousin.
Liz Narration: Fresh out of college, Mel was just living her life.
Mel: I had been living on my own already for two years and I was doing whatever 20 something year olds do. I was going to concerts and traveling. But I was also taking my responsibilities very seriously. Being a young professional. Becoming financially independent.
Liz Narration: And then came the curve ball…
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Mel: Yeah, so the moment I found out, was because I missed my period. I immediately went to get a test.
Liz Narration: It was positive. Like I said earlier, Mel and I didn’t talk about these things really — I didn’t find out about her pregnancy until like, a DECADE after if happened.
Liz: How did you feel when you found out you were pregnant? What did you do?
Mel: I instantly felt in my gut that everything I worked hard for was just going to crumble. And I knew that I had to get an abortion because being a mother and being pregnant was something I didn’t want at that time.
Liz: This was an instant reaction for you. You saw the test and you’re like absolutely not the time. You knew you were going to get an abortion.
Mel: Yes, without a doubt. I saw the positive pregnancy test. I knew I wanted an abortion. I was even willing to go forward with one without even telling my partner.
Liz Narration: But after reflecting about it, she decided to tell him. She picked up the phone and said:
Mel: By the way, I’m pregnant and I’m going to get an abortion. I hope you’re okay with this decision. And he, uh, was shocked and then he says, “well, I want you to know I support you with whatever decision you make, but I’m glad you’re making this decision.”
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Liz: That must’ve been a big relief.
Mel: I honestly, it didn’t matter to me what he thought. I was really wanting this abortion. I wanted him to know where my mind was at. I thought it was sweet that he wanted to give me the option, but I knew that we both knew that we didn’t want this at all. We weren’t even serious about a relationship, yet alone like starting a commitment with pregnancy and being parents.
Liz: Where does this intense independence come from, Mel?
Mel: I don’t know if it was just more of like an empowerment of my choice. I wanted to do something for me and I was in a moment in my career that I was seeing rare opportunities that I wasn’t going to see anywhere else. And I loved what I was doing.
[STRING-BASED MUSIC PLAYS]
Liz Narration: Mel had made her decision, she was ready, her partner was on board, now it was time to act. Her next step was to figure out how to actually go about getting an abortion, especially in red states like Florida that aren’t exactly openly offering women’s health care services
Mel: My first thought was to call my gynecologist. I looked at their website, and I couldn’t find any information related to abortion. Then I was wondering if even abortion was the term. So I was saying, like, maybe I’m looking for the wrong word.
Liz Narration: So she went online searching for anything related to abortions.
Mel: “Pregnancy termination” — I was just Googling anything I could think of.
Liz Narration: And finally, she found a doctor who offered the service.
Mel: When I called them, they said that they, that I would have to first speak to the doctor, so she could give me resources. And they didn’t give me an appointment until two months later, and I did not want to wait that long.
Liz Narration: So she started from square one.
Mel: I did the same thing and did some searching on their website. I could not find any information. And when I would call, no one would give me a straight answer. So then I started just googling abortion clinics near me. I found a center called “Womens Health Center”, which is right next door to my house, by the way. And I called them and they answered. They were very patient, very kind. They answered all the questions I had and they told me that I could walk in at any time.
Liz: And how did you feel when you got there?
Mel: I had, like, uh, an idea of a scary dark place or like, a creepy hospital room, but it was very welcoming. It was actually a gynecologist. It was not an abortion clinic specifically. They just provided a lot of women health resources and services.
[STRING-BASED MUSIC ENDS]
Liz Narration: They called her name to come see the doctor, and the first question was, if she was there on her own free will or if someone was forcing her to be there.
Mel: I told them that I was on my own and that I was confident.
Liz: How many weeks pregnant were you at that point?
Mel: Probably five or six weeks pregnant because it was the first week of my missed period.
Liz: So this was Immediate Mel.
Mel: It was within 24 hours of me knowing. I didn’t even let a day pass.
Liz: Wow.
Mel: I knew so clearly that it was not what I wanted. I knew that wanting to be a mother needed to be like a deep desire and something that you were so sure of. And I didn’t want to make a commitment where I wasn’t confident or, or like feeling ready at the moment.
[SLOW, PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYS]
Liz Narration: So Mel arrives to the clinic…
Mel: They were so kind. They were so patient. Then they wanted to do a sonogram. And I was curious to see what was in the sonogram and then when the nurse says, “oh, would you like to see it? Maybe you change your mind.” As soon as she said that I decided not to see it. And I never saw the sonogram and it’s not something I regret or anything. I just thought it was like the word choice just didn’t rub me the right way. I wanted her to realize that my decision was made. I was sure. Now looking back I appreciate that she gave me that option. But at that moment, I just wanted to get it over with.
Liz Narration: They gave Mel the paperwork to sign and explained how everything would work.
Mel: I was so early in my pregnancy that the option was a medical abortion, which they give you two pills. One of them is to stop the pregnancy and the other one is to induce contractions and to release the embryo. She told me it cost $900, and if I was willing to pay for it, and if I wasn’t, they would have given me some options and payment plans. They said that I will feel deep cramps, like if I’m going to have a heavy period. And then I would have heavy bleeding as if it was a heavy flow of the period. And then after that, um, to take the second pill and I should just rest.
Liz: So, you get your instructions, you take your two pills, then what happens?
Mel: So I was supposed to take the pills at home, I took them immediately I got into the car. I just took one.
Liz INT: Oh my gosh, by yourself?
Mel: By myself. Because I’m like, alright, I could deal with cramps, and I’m on my way home, so it’s gonna be fine.
[SLOW, PENSIVE MUSIC ENDS]
Mel: So I took the pill, and maybe ten minutes in, I started feeling the cramps. And I’m like, okay, this is serious, I need to go home. I took a shower. I just went to bed and the pain got worse and worse and then I started getting scared because I’m like Is this what I’m supposed to be feeling? Then I went online to see if there’s like, anyone who had gone through that type of abortion. And I found a Reddit post of someone who detailed an outline hour by hour of what you feel.
And I just let the day happen. Um, then Giancarlo, my partner, he came over and he just gave me water, made me soup. And then we started talking about like, this is like serious. This is a serious physical change I’m going through right now. It’s not a game.
Liz: This is so fast and so much for you to process, so that physical experience with so little context, right? Like why did you have to go to a random obscure reddit post like this should be something that we have more access to. You were alone in your knowledge gap As you were going through this experience and that just feels so unfair?
Mel: We’re alone in our experience because we don’t talk about our experience. The more that I was researching the more I realized how common abortions are. And also there is a taboo even amongst the medical field or amongst women health clinics to admit that they offer these services. They don’t have it readily available for people to realize that that’s an option they have.
Liz: After you shared about it with your partner, like who, who was the next person you told and when?
Mel: I never spoke to anyone about it. I thought like it was just something that happened, a choice I made, one of many choices I make in my life, and I just went on with my life. We didn’t talk about it again with my partner. I did started thinking of like other birth control methods that I wasn’t taking seriously. And then I was a little naive thinking I didn’t have to talk about it again. But it is part of my medical history. So whenever I go to a doctor and they ask if I’ve been pregnant, I say I have been pregnant. And when they find out I don’t have a child, then they say, “sorry.” And that makes me feel a little strange because I don’t feel sorry. And then I start realizing there’s a stigma about everything around abortion.
Liz Narration: These stigmas come from how we were raised, or that Catholic guilt that’s still hard for us to get rid of. But, the truth is, the experience of abortion is widespread and, for someone like Mel, it actually doesn’t leave a lingering feeling of trauma.
Mel: I think that’s a reason why I don’t talk about it so much because it was not traumatic and it wasn’t spectacular in any way. I think there’s like an expectation of a story that I don’t have and I’m very proud of having my abortion. And I don’t know how to advocate for it other than speaking about it whenever there’s a chance. I started realizing that the more I would speak about it, the more I would find a friend that had an abortion. And it made me realize, like, wow, I know more people with an abortion than I, than I thought. And so. I have been a little bit more outspoken in the last couple of years, especially with all the laws changing.
Liz Narration: Mel and I are having this conversation in Florida, the state with some of the most vicious attacks on reproductive rights in the past year. In 2023 Governor DeSantis signed The Heartbeat Protection Act, which prohibits abortions once the unborn child has a detectable heartbeat, which is as early as 6 weeks for some women.
Liz: I’m wondering, Mel, if Some of your want to talk about the topic comes from living in a state like Florida.
Mel: Yes, definitely I definitely feel a responsibility to continue to share my story. To talk about a perspective that maybe is not so widely talked about an abortion that gave me a lot of relief and a lot of joy and an option of many options I have on a daily basis.
Liz Narration: And after having the abortion, the relationship between Mel and her partner became even stronger.
[PERCUSSIVE MUSIC STARTS]
Mel: Our relationship got better and stronger and I think like maybe five years after that or maybe six years after that we got married. And we’ve been married for six years since. And we are a happy family. We’ve both have been very successful in our careers. We’ve both been supportive of our dreams. We’ve been able to buy property, have as many pets as we’d like, travel the world. And now we’re in a place where we are ready to start thinking of having a family. And now that decision of wanting to be a mom makes more sense.
Liz Narration: And today we have the exciting news that Mel is expecting a baby girl! This whole experience of going through an abortion definitely didn’t change Mel’s mind about having kids. She knew that she wanted to have kids when the time was right for HER.
Mel: I also had internalized abortion stigma, which is maybe why I didn’t speak about it so openly. And that stigma happens when we don’t talk about it. And then we start weaponizing or imagining abortion as a bad thing. But abortion is healthcare, and abortion is safe. And abortion is necessary so that we can start, um, empowering women to be their full self. But it’s necessary to realize that There’s choices that I can make for my body that I know what’s best for me. Deep down in my heart, I know what’s best for me. And moving forward with this abortion allowed me to have a really happy, thriving life that I can now enjoy being a mother.
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Liz Narration: Empowering. That’s the word that keeps coming up for me after hearing Mel’s story. Fully owning her right to choose. If only it was easier for women in her shoes to be able to access the care they need. But every day, it’s becoming harder. I know this next stat is going to make you all as angry as me. The National Partnership for Women & Families and the National Latina Institute for Reproductive Justice found that 42% of Latinas live in the 26 states that have banned or are likely to ban abortions. That’s 6.5 million Latinas who live in one of the states affected by the Supreme Court striking down Roe v. Wade. That’s terrible, Pulso fam. How is it possible that it’s 2024 and we STILL have some people in our government trying to tell us what to do with our bodies? In fact, it feels like we’re going backwards.
While Mel is comfortable with the world knowing her abortion story, Our next guest, who we’re going to call Ana, has chosen to remain anonymous and we’ve had a voice actor re-record the words she spoke in the interview. The range of abortion stories and comfort with sharing is of course, varied, and Ana has her own unique version to share.
This, after the break
[BREAK]
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Liz Narration: When Ana was in High school, Ana started to have some very serious health problems.
Anonymous: My kidneys failed really quickly and really dramatically when I was a senior in high school.
Liz Narration: Doctors told her she needed to have a full blown kidney transplant. This experience obviously shifted a lot of things in her life, and it made her ask a lot of questions about the things so many people take for granted, one of them…having a child.
Anonymous: It’s something that I’ve definitely thought a lot about just because if you choose to become pregnant and go through with a pregnancy and giving birth there’s always the risk that your transplanted organ is going to take a hit. Like it’s going to decrease in function and you can’t recover that function. And the other reason is because, one of the medications that I take, can cause severe birth defects. I think that deep down inside, a part of me thought that it wasn’t possible for me to get pregnant.
Liz Narration: But life decided it had other plans for Ana.
Anonymous: So at the time I was in a long distance relationship and had gone home for Thanksgiving. And then I went back for Christmas. Probably like halfway through the trip, I started to think, huh, I haven’t gotten my period in a while. So I came back to my house on February 7th and I think like that weekend I bought a test and I worked up the nerve to finally take it. And when I tell you that when I saw those two lines and it said positive, I think I was like, “there’s no f***ing way that this is actually, like, for real.”
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Anonymous: I was freaked out, but I wasn’t like sad. It was more just like, oh my God, I can’t believe it.
Liz Narration: She talked to her boyfriend, and, let’s just say he wasn’t exactly supportive.
Anonymous: He asked me what I wanted to do. And I was like, well I’m gonna make an appointment like I need to have an abortion because I can’t have any kids unplanned.
Liz Narration: But she’d never gone through this before and really didn’t know where to start.
Anonymous: I was like, “who do I call? Do I just go to my regular doctor and get a blood test? Or like, do I go to an OB?” One of the things that I struggle with is a lot of like reproductive, cancer prevention. So I haven’t gone to a regular OB-GYN in like six years.
I was still not convinced that I was pregnant. And I was like, I need a doctor to verify this information. So I made a regular appointment for a pregnancy test at the doctor’s office. I told them I was there for a pregnancy test. This doctor asked me before she did the test, what I wanted to do if it was positive. I said, “I’m not sure if I’m going to go through with the pregnancy.” I told her that very directly. I was like, “no, I’m not excited. This was not planned.” And she did the test. And when she walked into my room, she was like, “congratulations.” And the door was open, there was no privacy. I was so upset. I think that that interaction was probably the most upsetting thing of the whole experience. It was like, what you read about a lot as, as women, just being totally disregarded and how much more value doctors place on like unborn children than they, or fetuses than they do on women or the people who are carrying them.
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So she handed me this, like, super thick book on, it was like a guide on pregnancy. Nothing in there about abortion. I looked. And then she said, “Have you gone to the OBGYN to get an ultrasound? I estimate that you’ve been pregnant anywhere from 9 to 12 weeks.”
I think I like disassociated from myself because when I tell you guys that I did not have a single pregnancy symptom for somebody who was pregnant for three months. I wasn’t showing at all. I didn’t have any morning sickness. Like, I didn’t have any of the symptoms that I have read about or seen or, like, heard about from friends.. And so I was like, wow, this has been like such an easy experience, maybe this is like a sign, like should I not have an abortion? And that’s where it started to become a little bit more complicated for me.
Liz Narration: This is where things got harder. For Ana, the fact that the pregnancy was going on so well felt like a bit of a sign. And the decision to terminate the pregnancy became more complicated. She started considering other possibilities
Liz: Did you talk about that with your boyfriend? Those, those mixed feelings?
Anonymous: I did. This experience is ultimately what ended our relationship because his reactions throughout this whole process were not supportive of mine.
[SCIENCE-Y MUSIC ENDS]
My therapist told me that there’s nothing wrong with experiencing joy about something, even if you know that it’s going to come to an end. I think that being able to hold two truths at once, which is that you want to have an abortion. And also like, wow. I think those emotions were just like too complex for him to hold all at once. And I, at the time, was really hurt by it.
Liz Narration: Where Ana Lives, there are no timelines for a pregnancy as a requirement for when to opt for an abortion, which relieved some of the worry, because at this point she was 3 months pregnant, facing a really difficult situation, by herself.
Anonymous: I was probably too far along for an abortion pill, meaning I needed to have a surgical abortion, which was my preference anyway, because I kept thinking like, “okay, with a kidney transplant, I just don’t want to risk having an abortion at home and like something going wrong.” So I ended up finding this private clinic that specializes in complicated abortions. And I decided that I was going to make an appointment.
LIZ Narration: When Ana met the doctors at the clinic, she told them she felt torn. On one hand, she didn’t feel that, given her medical history, she could bring a healthy child to this world. On the other hand, being pregnant was a beautiful experience for her. The doctor understood her dilemma and referred Ana to a well known hospital where she could do genetic testing to help her better evaluate her options.
Anonymous: I was starting to think like, is this crazy if I just continue with the pregnancy. Like, is that insane? I told them my concerns about my, you know, getting pregnant while I was taking my medication. They did the early anatomy scan for me. They like talked me through like some anomalies that they saw with like head size and things like that.
[PENSIVE MUSIC BEGINS]
And as soon as I heard that I was like okay I’m making the right decision.
I cried so much that day in that office, like, poor woman, I just cried in her office, but I think it was, like, relief and sadness for myself and sadness for, like, this experience ending. But also immense relief that I don’t have the what if question, like, what if my potential baby would have been healthy?
LIZ Narration: So she went ahead with the procedure, back at the special clinic.
Anonymous: It was lovely. And I left feeling like, “damn, I wish that this was what reproductive healthcare was like for women.” I mean, I wish that it didn’t cost $3000, which is how much I paid out of pocket for my abortion in order to have nice, caring, well trained people guiding you through this.
Liz Narration: This was now several years ago that Ana had her abortion, yet, in June 2022, the day that roe v wade was overturned…
Anonymous: I cried the day that the verdict came out. I think that this experience showed me that it’s already so hard to access healthcare in these, super progressive states. And the fact that the clinic that I went to like supports women who have to travel from other states — is something that’s so hard to comprehend. In general, I feel devastated that we don’t even have that autonomy to exercise our own family planning. We just are so disregarded.
[PENSIVE MUSIC ENDS]
Liz Narration: We’re in dire times for reproductive healthcare access in this country. Extremist politicians across the United States are trying to limit our freedom to decide what to do with our own bodies. Freedom and choice is as American as apple pie, and the choice to make decisions about our bodies alone, or with our families, partners, with our faith leaders, or whoever we choose to confide in, in PRIVATE — that’s what’s under attack. If you had an abortion or are thinking of having one, we see you y te acompanamos. If you need resources for you or someone you love, click the link in the show notes of this episode.
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Liz Narration: This episode was produced by me, Liz Rebecca Alarcón. Script editing from Mark Pagán and Charlie Garcia. Audio engineering from Charlie Garcia and Julian Blackmore. Voiceover recording from Anita Flores.
You can subscribe to In Confianza wherever you get your podcasts, and if you like what you heard please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and tell a friend to give us a listen.
We’ll be back next week with another episode. Until then, we hope you find the right time and space for your own conversations, in confianza.
